It’s less that it’s too expensive for Americans but more that they think DAHER shouldn’t make profits THAT big with the current exchange rate … at least thats what I hear
davidfabry wrote:
I flew 1h10 and he flew 1h25. He can claim a lower hourly rate but when looking at mission cost rather than hourly rate, the gap was marginal and we can all agree sitting on the TBM is better than being on the Jetprop.
The gap should be much more than marginal. The TBM 700 incurs route charges of 150 € for EBAW EDMS and consumes 80 gal of fuel while the Jetprop incurs no route charges and consumes 50 gal of fuel. That is from my (probably not perfect) models on autorouter.
I don’t have the details on your models but let’s just stick to them for argument sake:
Eurocontrol: 150 EUR (We average 90 EUR per hour on the TBM so with 1.10, I would account for a bit less)
30 gal is 114 liters at .50 GBP (What I pay at Biggin) is 82 EUR
That means 232 EUR. However when I account for total hourly rate (which includes provisions for parts, maintenance etc), the extra 15 minutes flown on the Jetprop are reducing this gap: The hourly rental on the Jetprop is 650 EUR for example so 15 minutes=162 EUR
232 EUR – 162 EUR = 70 EUR on this flight which I qualify as marginal (we might not all agree on that adjective as 70 EUR is not pocket change for most but still in the SET world, it is not much)
davidfabry wrote:
The hourly rental on the Jetprop is 650 EUR for example so 15 minutes=162 EUR
You aren’t accounting for a rental cost on the TBM
I think the price difference to the Tbm will be about 1.75 million which buys a hell of a lot of fuel.
Some customers could finance this 1.75 million extra but some will not be able to or will simply not want to.
It also means depreciation is less in total dollars for the jet( assuming same rate on both aircraft)
2 million for a jet is definitely a bargain and I think it is likely that Cirrus will raise the price to say 2.5 million at some point after certification.
That means that the 500 positions currently sold will not experience much depreciation during the first five years of use.
We need to wait and see the final performance and payload numbers but I think they will be very close to the spec targets.
I think it will be a great product and while I love the TBM and meridien, I think sales will suffer somwewhat when Cirrus is in full production of this Jet.
I’m in the Peter camp. The fastest speed mod is the plane with the longest range.
There was a long debate between a Premier 1 owner and a PC12 owner on BeechTalk. Both of them long distance flyers. The PC12 beat the Premiere each time over 1000nm in time.
Both of them long distance flyers. The PC12 beat the Premiere each time over 1000nm in time.
The SF50 is NOT the plane for “long distance flyers”. I only is what it is, and it is the perfect plane for the missions it is designed to fly. Alsoi, like all other airplanes (yes, twin TPs too) it’s a compromise.
It is meant as an upgrade for people who flew the SR22 for some years. It has some limitations, but it has the CAPS system, and that alone will sell 500.
Hi Jason,
The rental cost is just there to show what a typical hourly rate includes even if you own.
In an attempt to be more specific: If you rent, the hourly rental cost difference is almost offset by the mission time difference: Around 150 EUR less for the Jetprop in this case which many might not expect to be that little when you think no Eurocontrol and less fuel.
If you own, the logic is the same but figures slightly different.
Have a good night!
davidfabry wrote:
Just like a Mooney! No pun intended…210Kts for two is such a Mooney mission!
Actually, an Acclaim would do better than that, around 240 kts and it can keep that up for about 1500 NM. But it does not have a pressurized cabin and reaches it’s top speed somewhere around FL250. That makes it faster than an SR22T but the Cirrus Jet can of course fly much faster with corresponding range penalties and in a pressurized cabin. I don’t think one could compare that at all.
Even the Ovation will do 200 kts @ 12000 ft but outdoes the range of the Cirrusjet massively with up to 1800 NM.
However, the speed advantage of the Cirrus Jet does not seem to be that extreme over corresponding Turboprops, while I would expect it will cost more to operate. The TBM 900 however will do 330 kts and has a range comparable to the Acclaim. So therefore it is a much more capable airplane performance wise as well as with a larger cabin.
Peter wrote:
Is the Extra 330SC turbocharged?
Of course not. It’s an aerobatic hot rod. However, SC is competition single-seater, they also have a “touring” two-seater which is faster in cruise. That is normally not really a consideration for competition aerobats. On the contrary, mistake in a more slippery airframe is more costly (you pick up speed more quickly).
