Well, a jet without a coupled autopilot? Is THAT attractive? For how long … I’d much rather have a PC12, I tell you. Lands at the places I want to go as well …
Alexis,
realistically, there are not many left which don’t have the Avio >1.5 upgrade, out of 260 planes the estimate is about 30. The others all have the coupled AP by now.
That is the current status, the integrated FMS. All airplanes delivered now as well as the Total Eclipse updated airplanes are like this.
As I wrote to Adam, those which do not have at least the Avio 1.5 but better the 1.7 are not really viable airplanes, as the cost of upgrade is higher than an equivalent upgraded one.
This might be of interest of you Alexis:
One of the people in this video is the COPA founder.
I think it’s worth mentioning, that when all is said and done there really is no such thing as a “cheap” jet.
Acquisition costs & fuel efficient cruise might look favourably low for the Eclipse, but jet flying is a different class altogether.
I looked at the numbers on VLJ’s a while ago, and when you add it ALL in you’re looking at a total cost of ownership at USD150,000+ a year, flying the Eclipse 250hrs. (ex depreciation & financing costs etc)
Not to mention the value you put on your own time – unlike the Meridian/TBM/PC-12 you need type ratings initial & yearly recurrent for any jet.
I do like the Eclipse. It truly is a ‘personal jet’, whereas managing bigger jets is more like running a flight department. The limited maintenance options & custom avionics would be my biggest concern with the Eclipse.
Very informative post, MD.
Yes no doubt the Eclipse project got shafted over by external factors too.
I very much hope they succeed.
I wonder what the repair options are for the avionics. Is the design in the public domain – or at least the wiring and maintenance manuals? With what I now know, I would never buy any plane unless I got the MMs for the essential parts and especially in this case. I actually requested the IMs for the TB20 avionics when I bought it but the dealer defaulted on it and I forgot. Fortunately all of the essential stuff escaped into the wild (the internet) since then.
FWIW, TBMs are a lot cheaper than people think. Currently, $1M gets you a reasonable 700 with a shagged engine, which means $1.3M with an overhauled engine. That will have the old EFIS-40 avionics which are “overhaul market supported” which is not great but the G1000 planes (TBM850) cost quite a bit more. A new 850 was $3.3M last time I looked. For comparison, $1.3M is less than a new Jetprop so while the operating cost is higher, you get a lot of plane for your money, with 500m tarmac capability and a ~1500nm zero fuel range which is e.g. Shoreham-Crete.
i don’t really care. I will never fly a jet, and i would not even consider a turboprop if i sold my company very well … i’d rather send my kids to some great university or buy a house in the mediterranean. The SR22 is really the max i can (somehow) justify.
Interesting information though!
If Peter buys a TBM, Socata will immediately thereafter stop producing it. Isn’t that exactly what happened with the TB20? 
TBMs cost significantly more in maintenance than a JetProp, apparently an order of magnitude.
TBMs cost significantly more in maintenance than a JetProp, apparently an order of magnitude.
I am sure that’s true, but it will be largely cultural i.e. while a Jetprop owner will probably get involved with maintenance, a TBM owner will just drop it at the Socata dealer. Actually many of them fly to the factory for servicing. There isn’t anything especially necessarily expensive on a TBM, or a TB for that matter, on Part 91. The problem is that if you turn up at a Socata dealer and tell them you are on Part 91, they will still do the whole Socata MM schedule. For example the autopilot servos “need” to be removed and torque clutch tested at every Annual, which must cost about 2k.
I am sure the same happens with a Cirrus v. a Piper or a Cessna. The average Cirrus customer just drops it off at the official dealer (in the UK, anyway).
You will get this at every level. I don’t know if it’s any different for jets.
There isn’t anything especially necessarily expensive on a TBM
Hmmm have you ever seen spare parts prices for the TBM? I remember I saw some when I was down there …
The average Cirrus customer
Yes, that’s actually what PILOTS do. They fly and let mechanics do the maintenance :-) But we’ve discussed this …
Hmmm have you ever seen spare parts prices for the TBM?
Yes but please read my post
Probably 90% of the MM list (which on any Socata is as long as his arm) doesn’t need to be done. It is just the French way of doing things, later formalised as EASA Part M.
If I take my TB20 to Tarbes for an Annual, it will cost about €10k. If I take it to a, ahem, well known UK dealer for another “modern” type, it will cost me £2.5k (i.e. £5k when I come to collect it). I do neither of those; I maintain to Part 91 under which everything that needs doing gets done.
Yes, that’s actually what PILOTS do
OK, but then don’t complain about cost of maintenance
I just posted that, because although there are specialists (fanatics? :-)) like you and Achim you have to keep in mind that MOST pilots cannot do the maintenance on their planes. So, when we talk about COST of flying in a forum like this one we can’t talk about what it costs YOU to maintain a TB20, becasue that is of very little value for the “average” (or “normal”) aircraft owner.
Maybe, if I had a hangar in which I could do the maintenance I would do it aswell. But it looks like (in the area I live) this will never be the case.
I also never complained ! :-)
However you put it: a TBM is a VERY expensive airplane to maintain.
