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Icing (merged threads)

I prime the TKS system either on the ground or while climbing out to see if the surfaces are wet. Then I turn it off in most cases or might leave it on or turn it on just before entering below zero clouds in the climb out.

EDLE, Netherlands

Thank you all for interpreting my picture. It helps to understand what one is seeing. Without reference it is difficult to distinguish danger from normal. One somehow needs to develop a sense for the moment when a situation is tripping over to the other side.

Frequent travels around Europe

Stephan,
Does your POH call for a specific minimum ice penetration speed? In the PA46, it’s 135kts vs usual cruise climb 125kts, which basically mean you should use full power to get out of an icing layer without spending 15 minutes in it potentially (VS is around 500fpm in my plane at 135ias).

EGTF, LFTF

Tactics to deal with icing

Based on

achimha wrote:

Continuing in icing conditions and hoping it will get better is putting yourself in danger.

I would like to start to compile a list of examples to come up with some good guidelines for dealing with ice during climb and descent. It’s clear that one doesn’t want to cruise in icing conditions.

Maybe the information can be compiled into a Google Doc and linked from here or similar place. It may serve current IFR students and people like myself who have the ticket but not yet a good deal of experience with the phenomenon.

Frequent travels around Europe

I think Stephan’s post dropped off the horizon

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Difficult one to answer, especially on a public forum. " Stay out of icing conditions with aeroplanes that are not capable and/or certified to deal with ice " is all I will ever say in public (or face-to-face to my students). And in case it happens inadvertently: " Get out of icing conditions as fast as you can ". Either like Achim did by reversing his course (http://www.euroga.org/forums/trips-airports/4209-a-flight-that-didnt-work-out-as-planned) or by descending again when it happens during climb.

EDDS - Stuttgart

If fly IFR in a single/twin the advice “to stay out of icing conditions” isn’t really that helpful, right? I never fly into ice that is forecast, but as you all know – it simply happens. Otherwise you could only fly IFR in the Caribbean … and they have a lot of convective clouds/CBs too …

…but as you all know – it simply happens.

No it doesn’t simply happen. Atmospheric physics is well understood and the conditions that lead to airframe icing are known. Whenever I enter a cloud and the outside air temperature shows 2 degrees Celsius or less, I can expect icing. It is my choice alone whether or not I fly into that cloud (or what level of risk I am willing to accept). And yes, winter flying in Europe without deicing capability is not guaranteed. I learnt that through a very narrow escape some twenty years ago and have since stayed out of it successfully. (Or flown aircraft that can handle ice)

EDDS - Stuttgart

Not for climb/descent but one guidance I got during my training was to avoid starting at temperatures around 0°C with rain/snow because it would easily stick to the cold wings. That was with an aircraft with deicing boots and certified for moderate icing below FL100. Deicing could fix that problem but that’s not a plausible option for the aircraft we are discussing.

Last Edited by Vladimir at 23 Jun 08:37
LSZH, LSZF, Switzerland

No it doesn’t simply happen.

Sorry, I put that wrong, I did not mean to say that we don’t know if it can happen. I wanted to express that there wouldn’t be much IFR flying left here if we would want to be 100% sure we will have no ice. I for one avoid it wherever i can, and I fly in IMC only if necessary. But last week in Greece I flew into an overcast at FL120 (that I had no chance to see on any forecast) and the temperature was more than +2 degrees outside the cloud and -2 inside. It wasn’t bad icing, but it was unpredictable for a pilot with medium experience, like me.

Last Edited by Flyer59 at 23 Jun 08:42
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