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Icing (merged threads)

A TB20/SR22, with its 18k-20k ceiling, can make VMC-on-top 99% of the time in non-frontal / stable wx, and in such wx you are unlikely to get much ice during the transitions.

I was told by more than one airline captain that climate change is directly visible from the cockpit. There are often frontal situations in Continental Europe where they cannot climb to VMC with an Airbus/Boeing. This apparently was not common in the "old days".

However, aren't you relatively safe in IMC once you're below -25°C?

However, aren't you relatively safe in IMC once you're below -25°C?

You should be safe below -15C in stable wx, and below perhaps -40C in convective wx.

However, in warm conditions, I've seen -5C at FL170, this summer. Would not want to be sitting in IMC in that for too long.

Also in IMC you could fly into something quite nasty

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Some Commander 114B were factory fitted with TKS. Panels on Wings, Horizontal, Stabiliser and Vertical Stabiliser with a Prop slinger and spray bar for the screen.

There are two main pumps and two screen pumps. The system is self priming but if not run regularly can take some time to flow from all panels.

A second 85 amp alternator is fitted. There is a heated Stall Warner and an Ice light,

The system holds 7 US gals; enough for 2 hours 41 minutes at Normal and 1 hour 20 minutes at Maximum.

The TKS fluid is easily available from Kilfrost, about £19 per US gal.

There is a weight penalty of about 50 pounds for the equipment and 7 US gal of fluid weights 64 pounds.

EGBP Kemble, United Kingdom

The only rule of thumb about icing is that there is no rule of thumb. I have personally experienced moderate icing at minus 36 in stable stratus cloud with no icing in the forecast and no icing at all in towering Cu and minus 8 and on the windward side of the Canadian West Coast mountains with forecast moderate to severe icing.

Icing is where you find it......

Wine, Women, and Airplanes = Happy
Canada

This is probably a silly question, and I have probably answered it myself but...

Why dont light aircraft use electrically heated strips on the leading edge of wings, rather than either using the pneumatic boot option, or the expensive TKS fluid system? I assumed thats what the Airliners use. Is it just because, even with a relatively light metal, that GA aircraft dont have enough battery / generator power to to such large strips ? I know that the pitot heat takes a lot of power to operate, but thats quite a thick piece of metal. Just seems that this would be a simpler cheaper solution into FIKI.

PiperArcher

I only know in detail abut Citations, but I understand they are not un-typical in respect of Anti-Ice.

In the main the anti-ice on turbine equipment is actually bleed air heated. It does have an effect on aircraft performance as the power has to come from somewhere, and it results in noticeably lower thrust with anti-ice on.

We have electric heating on the aoa sensor, sensors in the engine, and pitots

Bleed air does the wing, engine inlet, engine pylon ducts, and windscreen.

Pneumatic boots are fitted on the tailplane, although that is inflated by 23psi service air, which comes from bleed air too.

Each engine does it's respective wing, although in the case of OEI either engine can give enough bleed air to power the anti ice, there is a cross feed for wing anti ice.

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

I have just read a review of the Phenom 100 which uses rubber boots all over but they painted them silver so it looks like bleed air heating

Actually it must be quite complicated to have bleed air heating on a T-tail elevator... an interesting plumbing exercise!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

PiperArcher,

there is an electrical system call ThermaWing which was first released on the Columbia 400. There were several issues with it and Cessna pulled the plug after its acquisition of Columbia and installed TKS.

I think it is doable but you need a lot of electrical energy.

Why are there not more light aircraft with boots? Seems to me the simplest, cheapest and it works! it doesn't use expensive TKS fluid, doesn't have any issues with run-back and doesn't need an expensive plumbing job like a bleed air system?

Why are there not more light aircraft with boots? Seems to me the simplest, cheapest and it works!

I've never had a plane with boots but have seen plenty around...

The boots perish and need repair or replacement, and they are a bit of a hassle. Unless - like quite a lot of pilots - you don't bother, but then you (AIUI) can't get the Annual signed off.

They are generally powered from the outlet side of a traditional vac pump, and they need some controls to cycle them so that ice is allowed to build up to a thickness which can be effectively broken off.

But yes they are popular, together with an electrically heated prop, on all the "old" twins etc.

I think it is doable but you need a lot of electrical energy.

The Cessna 400 had a second (third?) alternator, with something like a 50V/100A output, just for powering the heated strips.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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