Airborne_Again wrote:
As far as approval goes, in EASA-land you don’t have to use approved checklists for non-commercial operations with non-complex aircraft.
I’m not able to find references on this, but I’m sure there are if you say so :)
The “local” CAA is of the opinion that “should” is the same as “shall” in AltMOC. So, 40-50 year old POH checklists (without any e.g. IFR specific items) are used. In my opinion, that’s just silly and dangerous…
ErlendV wrote:
I’m not able to find references on this, but I’m sure there are if you say so :)The “local” CAA is of the opinion that “should” is the same as “shall” in AltMOC.
The AMC to NCO.GEN.105 says that you “should” use the manufacturer’s checklists, but for NCO you can devise your own AltMOC’s with needing approval.
NCO.GEN.101: Alternative means of compliance to those adopted by the Agency may be used by an operator to establish compliance with Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 and its Implementing Rules.
Nothing says that you need approval for AltMOCs. Indeed, my club exclusively use our own checklists and the Swedish CAA did not made any comment on that when they did a very through inspection of our DTO earlier this year.
Arguably, many manufacturer checklists are impossible to use in practise. My favourite is the Cessna 172 POH landing checklist item “TOUCH DOWN – MAIN WHEELS FIRST.”
ErlendV wrote:
The “local” CAA is of the opinion that “should” is the same as “shall” in AltMOC.
They are plain wrong. The EU Commission in their style guide clearly states
10.26. Positive imperative. To impose an obligation or a requirement, EU legislation uses shall.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Airborne_Again28-Sep-23 11:2042
ErlendV wrote:
I’m not able to find references on this, but I’m sure there are if you say so :)
The “local” CAA is of the opinion that “should” is the same as “shall” in AltMOC.The AMC to NCO.GEN.105 says that you “should” use the manufacturer’s checklists, but for NCO you can devise your own AltMOC’s with needing approval.
NCO.GEN.101: Alternative means of compliance to those adopted by the Agency may be used by an operator to establish compliance with Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 and its Implementing Rules.
Nothing says that you need approval for AltMOCs. Indeed, my club exclusively use our own checklists and the Swedish CAA did not made any comment on that when they did a very through inspection of our DTO earlier this year.
Arguably, many manufacturer checklists are impossible to use in practise. My favourite is the Cessna 172 POH landing checklist item “TOUCH DOWN – MAIN WHEELS FIRST.”
Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 28 Sep 11:21
Do you know if there is any difference in this regard (self produced checklists), between a commercial-DTO and non-commercial DTO (assuming your club is a non-commercial DTO..)? Thank you.
I love me a good reference, thank you, Cobalt!
Yeager wrote:
Do you know if there is any difference in this regard (self produced checklists), between a commercial-DTO and non-commercial DTO (assuming your club is a non-commercial DTO..)? Thank you.
AFAIK the commercial/non-commercial ATO/DTO distinction is relevant only for maintenance. The ops rules are the same (NCO).
Airborne_Again wrote:
Airborne_Again28-Sep-23 20:5146
Yeager wrote:
Do you know if there is any difference in this regard (self produced checklists), between a commercial-DTO and non-commercial DTO (assuming your club is a non-commercial DTO..)? Thank you.
AFAIK the commercial/non-commercial ATO/DTO distinction is relevant only for maintenance. The ops rules are the same (NCO).
Ok, thank you for answering. Sorry for being lazy just asking, instead of looking up. Appreciate it.
