Airborne_Again wrote:
Because of an innate sense of morality?
There may be a few who have enough of that…. most of them however…. just look at the world how it is. That does not look as a society driven by morality to me…
Mooney_Driver wrote:
There may be a few who have enough of that…. most of them however…. just look at the world how it is. That does not look as a society driven by morality to me…
Humans actually have a very strong innate sense of morality. The problem is rather that our society is more complex, and with so many more interactions between people than were are evolutionary equipped to handle.
Of course fear of retribution is one very central piece of law enforcement. Why else would people not become total anarchists?
People choose deferred gratification as a result of having enlightened self-interest, otherwise known as maturity. The same reason why people invest modest sums of money for others to use productively over time versus spending it as soon as they get it their hands. Ultimately an appropriate and constructive level of cooperation with others provides people with more resources back to them and more power over their own lives.
The problem is rather that our society is more complex, and with so many more interactions between people than were are evolutionary equipped to handle.
Excess complexity is to nobody’s advantage for that reason among others. No amount of automation over people’s lives in the interest of so-called ‘efficiency’ will overcome their individual inability to understand their surroundings and act on them cooperatively and effectively, as they would in the simplest system possible.
Frans wrote:
YouTube is full of German ATC recordings. Pilot_Frank, Pilot Bambi, Guido Warnecke, The Flying Reporter, Matt Guthmiller, Micke Lang, Stefan Drury, Diamond Aircraft etc. to name a few bigger names. And in addition to those, even a lot smaller (German) channels…
I recorded a video which included the incompetence of a student and instructor – basically they established themselves on a 4 mile final for a towered (international) airport in class D without calling up the tower, they then landed and when asked to expedite leaving the runway by the end, they back tracked, caused incoming traffic to need to go around. Then they got lost on the apron such that the controller then sent them a follow me.
I put that on YouTube and within 2 days was contacted by the BR and asked either to remove it or they would take action…..
People choose deferred gratification as a result of having enlightened self-interest, otherwise known as maturity
Great comment 
within 2 days was contacted by the BR and asked either to remove it or they would take action
Who is “BR”?
Yes this is a danger. I have ended up with recordings of all kinds of incompetence – private pilots, bizjet pilots, airline pilots, ATC. In nearly all cases I edited it out. Well, except here where I left the outrageous sound track for German speakers to translate And some did, sending me the translation by PM due to the German law.
Peter wrote:
Who is “BR”?Yes this is a danger. I have ended up with recordings of all kinds of incompetence – private pilots, bizjet pilots, airline pilots, ATC. In nearly all cases I edited it out. Well, except here where I left the outrageous sound track for German speakers to translate And some did, sending me the translation by PM due to the German law.
Employees of the Bezirksregierung. They are the people who go around ramp checking you in Germany.
Steve6443 wrote:
I recorded a video which included the incompetence of a student and instructor – basically they established themselves on a 4 mile final for a towered (international) airport in class D without calling up the tower, they then landed and when asked to expedite leaving the runway by the end, they back tracked, caused incoming traffic to need to go around. Then they got lost on the apron such that the controller then sent them a follow me.OK, that makes sense. But the main message: You got a quick response from the local CAA and was asked to remove it, without any further legal action.I put that on YouTube and within 2 days was contacted by the BR and asked either to remove it or they would take action…..
Let’s say you only published your exchange with ATC, and maybe some other standard radio chatter, I bet you would never be contacted by the CAA.Das Fernmeldegeheimnis ist ein Verbot des unbefugten Abhörens, Unterdrückens, Verwertens oder Entstellens, von Fernmelde- Botschaften. Die Legaldefinition findet sich in § 88 Abs. 1 Telekommunikationsgesetz sowie in § 206 Abs. 5 StGB. Demnach unterliegen dem Fernmeldegeheimnis „der Inhalt der Telekommunikation und ihre näheren Umstände, insbesondere die Tatsache, ob jemand an einem Telekommunikationsvorgang beteiligt ist oder war“ sowie „die näheren Umstände erfolgloser Verbindungsversuche“. Es schützt daher die unkörperliche Vermittlung von Informationen an individuelle Empfänger und mithin auch die sog. Verkehrsdaten. Zu beachten gilt weiter, dass die Daten nach Abschluss des Kommunikationsvorgangs nach der Rechtsprechung des Bundesverfassungsgerichts nicht mehr zum Schutzbereich des Fernmeldegeheimnisses zählen. Diese Daten sind dann in den Herrschaftsbereich des Teilnehmers übergegangen und eine Gefahrenlage aufgrund der Kommunikation über eine räumliche Distanz besteht nicht mehr. Jedoch kommt dann der Schutzbereich des Rechts auf informationelle Selbstbestimmung aus Art. 2 Abs. 1 i.V.m. Art. 1 Abs. 1 GG zum Tragen.
Translation of the related part:
It should also be noted that, according to the Federal Constitutional Court, the data no longer falls within the scope of protection of telecommunications secrecy after the communication process has been completed. This data then passes into the control of the participant and a danger situation due to communication over a spatial distance no longer exists. However, the scope of protection of the right to informational self-determination from Article 2 Paragraph 1 in conjunction with Article 1 Paragraph 1 GG then comes into play.
But the main message: You got a quick response from the local CAA and was asked to remove it, without any further legal action
That is standard across social media, unless you have damaged somebody’s reputation, etc. In this case they have damaged it themselves and you merely widened the circle of people who knew
it seems that in a recording case (which you did as a pilot, who participated in the communication exchange), the “Fernmeldegeheimnis” does not apply anymore. Instead, people could complain and take legal action due to their privacy rights when hearing themselves, which makes sense and complies with your experience
That is also the UK law interpretation which allows publication of “own exchanges”. It would be frankly ridiculous if you could not do that.
The other thing, which any forum admin will be very familiar with is that forums (and for sure YT) are monitored by loads of people who never participate but instead pass on posts to outsiders who might be interested, especially if the recipient gets an opportunity to get nasty.
In the case above, although as recorded, it could be seen as setting out to do harm. You say that was not your intention. Your intention being to educate.
But there is also the law on privacy which is different in different countries.
And to top that off you have copyright law. You own the copyright to your own voice and any broadcast of it.
Scarlett Johansson v ChatGPT is an indication of this.
Being politely asked to take it down was probably the correct response from the authorities.
In 90% + of occasions if people were to hear their voice or see their face on You Tube many would be happy about it, others ambivalent.
But what happens if that video goes viral and that person whose voice you have used or face you have shown, sees that you are making money out of it. They may well think they deserve a share and in the majority of cases, courts have found for that person and all that remains is how much they should get. So it is in the video owners interest to perhaps settle before it gets that far.🙂
It is highly unlikely that the YT poster will make any money out of it. See here.
Only the names mentioned earlier make money out of YT but to do that you have to pump the video on all other social media: instagram, twatter, fb, tictoc, the lot. One doesn’t just accidentally pick up 100k followers.
Another thing is that if somebody has a go at you “legally” you could post the correspondence here on EuroGA and the attacker will look even more of a fool
