The £40k frozen ATPL (CPL/ME/IR)

Is it possible to do it in this order

FAA IR
UK CB IR (no exams)
Sit the 14 “ATPL” exams

or do the 14 exams have to be done before the IR test?

Peter wrote:

Is it possible to do it in this order

FAA IR
UK CB IR (no exams)
Sit the 14 “ATPL” exams

or do the 14 exams have to be done before the IR test?

One will have to study some of the materials three times:
1. FAA IR
2. That PDF while answering CB-IR questions (verbally, before the skills test)
3. ATPL exams.

The 7 IR or 13 ATPL exams must be done first unless applying as the holder of valid Part-FCL PPL or higher, a valid ICAO IR in the appropriate aeroplane class/es, and with 50 PIC IFR hours in the appropriate class/es. Appendix 6, Aa.8.

The model oral questions in GM1 to Appendix 6 depend mostly on rote learning so they should pose little difficulty to a candidate who has recently completed a US IR training course.

The 7 IR or 13 ATPL exams must be done first unless applying as the holder of valid Part-FCL PPL or higher, a valid ICAO IR in the appropriate aeroplane class/es, and with 50 PIC IFR hours in the appropriate class/es. Appendix 6, Aa.8.

I am trying to work out what this means. To get a European CPL/IR which can be later upgraded to an ATPL (via the standard 500hr multi pilot route) one needs to have the ATPL exams (13 now apparently; was 14 for many years). I thought these had to be done before both the CPL and the IR tests are done. But could one e.g. get the IR via the FAA IR to CB IR conversion and then do the CPL and the 13 exams?

AIUI, the expiry of the European written exams is blocked by passing the IR test. Which to me suggests you have to pass the IR test after the exams

Otherwise, what event would freeze the expiry of the exams? The CPL can’t AIUI because it doesn’t count for that purpose.

There is a further expiry, unrelated, at 7 years, if you don’t revalidate the IR, but this one is blocked if you are flying on another ICAO IR.

Peter wrote:

But could one e.g. get the IR via the FAA IR to CB IR conversion and then do the CPL and the 13 exams?

Yes. The CBIR/IR/ATPL theory course and exams are sufficient but not necessary when applying as the holder of an ICAO IR with 50 PIC IFR hours.

———

Part-FCL, Appendix 6 (Modular training courses for the IR)
Aa. IR — Competency-based modular flying training course

…

4. The course shall comprise:

(a) theoretical knowledge instruction to the IR knowledge level;

(b) instrument flight instruction.

…

8. Applicants for the competency-based modular IR holding a
Part-FCL PPL or CPL and a valid IR issued in compliance with the
requirements of Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention by a third country
may be credited in full towards the training course mentioned in
paragraph . In order to be issued the IR, the applicant shall:

(a) successfully complete the skill test for the IR in accordance
with Appendix 7;

(b) demonstrate to the examiner during the skill test that he/she has
acquired an adequate level of theoretical knowledge of air law,
meteorology and flight planning and performance (IR); and

(c) have a minimum experience of at least 50 hours of flight time
under IFR as PIC on aeroplanes.

…

———

Peter wrote:

AIUI, the expiry of the European written exams is blocked by passing the IR test.

The ATPL exam pass will remain valid for the issue of the ATPL if an IR entered in the licence has not been expired for 7 years. FCL.025(c)(2).

This report on the current UK CAA CPL/IR (“ATPL”) exams doesn’t look so great (source: FTN)

Apparently the QB is in a bad state and the CAA has nobody who knows anything about the subject.

There is a view that the CAA can’t use the pre-brexit EASA CPL/IR exams because EASA is claiming copyright The CAA denies that, claiming that a lot of the content came from the UK originally (which is probably correct).

That is horrendous. It must be thoroughly unfit for purpose, but much more so than usual.

What is the current best strategy for

• Which order to sit the 13 exams? I heard that doing IFR Comms as the last one (it’s usually easy, notwithstanding the fact that with just ~20 questions you can get anything from a fail to 100%) is the best way, and doing it just before the deadline for all 13

• What is the current maximum cost saving procedure via the CB IR freelance IRE concession?

When this thread started, the CB IR freelance option wasn’t there and this must have a big effect on the total cost.

Obviously one would do it all SE and convert to ME at the very end. I am assuming than SE CPL and IR do freeze the 13 exam passes for the 7 years, even though you cannot get a job anywhere unless you have ME.