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VFR Take-off at EDMS today ...

Yes, of course.
The departure minimum for EDMS when leaving IFR are 550 meters RVR though. I think it depends. With the Sr22 you are airborne after 350 m, even with full tanks in the winter – and a normal climb attitude will always result in 1500 fpm … I had 2400 fpm yesterday when I departed my home field with 1/3 fuel.

The departure minimum for EDMS when leaving IFR are 550 meters RVR though.

250m minimum says my Jeppesen chart (10-9 as of 6 Dec 2013).

EDDS - Stuttgart

Okay! That’s what the guys in the twr told me, 550 … i did not check the chart!

I depart 0/0. My departure from controlled airfields last week were all in 100 meter visibility or less. I have no problem with that. Coming back in to the same airports with such visibility is another issue.

EDLE, Netherlands

They may be confused with the Cat 1 min RVR for a landing (to be more accurate, to fly the approach below 1000ft AAL or so – the so-called “approach ban” in the UK) at an airport with high intensity approach lights (HIAL) and with an autopilot certified down to the MDA, which I believe is then 550m.

Without HIAL or without the autopilot it goes up to about 850m, I think.

Rumour is that a UK airport is required to file a report to the CAA if anybody lands below the “approach ban” figure. I know a number of UK ATCOs read EuroGA – perhaps one of them can confirm? I don’t know if they are required to file a report if the pilot is believed to have descended below 1000ft AAL but then goes around. I also don’t know if a Class G airport is required to file the report (I suspect not). I am not aware of any prosecutions.

And if the airport is not reporting an “RVR” it’s a good question One Class G ATCO told me recently (UK) that you can descend down to the MDA no matter what visibility figure ATC issue. As I often say, I know of only two people in the whole known universe who can actually read the EASA regs on this stuff, and only one of them posts here (rarely).

Is there any departure scenario where 550m is a relevant figure?

What many don’t know is that cloudbase on the approach is never a legal issue – because it is 100% pilot-interpreted. There are however many rumours of alleged VFR-into-IMC departures having been prosecuted, from Germany and the USA.

I depart 0/0.

A 0/0 departure is legal in US airspace in an N-reg, Part 91 ops. It used to be legal in UK airspace in an N-reg but not any more. Maybe Germany (?) has retained this?

But as I say I know only two people who can read the damned stuff

Last Edited by Peter at 18 Dec 13:23
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

No,
a VFR into IMC departure IS ilegal in Gemany. But at the uncontrolled airports I know the pilot will decide what’s legal and what not. In Straubing, for example, the tower (which is not a “tower” but simply advisory) will not interfere, or only when you can’t see the runway anymore. You might have a problem if there’s somebody there from the authorities, but you bet that everybody on the airport will know and communicate that in time.

I did have RVR 550 at the start of the approach, but then they gave me lower values while established on the ILS. I have the impression that they do this to give me a window to start the approach. In any case, I don’t think ATC is policing the thing. At least I never noticed so far. As for departures, I depart 0/0 from controlled airfields and will go for some visibility at uncontrolled airfields.

EDLE, Netherlands

I did have RVR 550 at the start of the approach…

On a private flight you can start (and continue beyond the OM) your approach at your discretion. What you see or don’t see upon reaching your DA is only known to you alone (unless I happen to sit next to you…) so the decision is yours alone. I have seen airplanes lying between the approach lights and only last week a Gulfstream took out the localiser antenna at Stanstead – so if you decide wrongly, the consequences will be on you.

As for departures, I depart 0/0 from controlled airfields…

You can only do that at airfields that have low visibility procedures and let you actually do it. Straubing has a minimum of 250m and if the radio operator tells you “my airfield is closed as visibility is below minimum” then it is closed.

EDDS - Stuttgart

In Straubing RVR is not measured – and except in cases where you can’t see ANYTHING they leave it to the pilot to decide if he can see 250 meters … I personally would not take off with 250 meters. Once the wheels are airborne i don’t mind beeing i the cloud … but not ROLLING!

I am by no means completely familiar with regs, but from what i have read, a lot of the commercial ops stuff like the approach ban and LVO approval beign required for approaches less than 550m RVR and take offs with less than 400m RVR are also in PART-NCC/NCO which apply to private flights as well, so I am not convinced that a private flight can continue beyond OM/EP with 0/0 for example.

Peter I believe the figure is 800ft without the coupled A/P, not sure about without HIAL.

Alexisvc, I may be missing something still but after looking at the NOTAM posted earlier in the thread, what would have been stopping you doing an IFR departure? Even if SIDs were not available, could you not receive a non standard IFR departure? I can’t see why this would be a problem just because an LPV approach had not been calibrated.

United Kingdom
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