Including N-registered aircraft? again that aircraft radio carries US flag, US soil and US territory with it, I have this paper from FCC RTOC that says I can operate radio internationally, I can do that in English, French and German…
With all due respect – you are grown up, do whatever you feel up to do. However, repeating your wrong statements doesn’t make them true. You can use your FCC licence in your N-reg to do English language RT comm, but not in German language (there are exceptions, amongst others for gliders in airspaces B, C, D. No clue about French language and their regulation). When you intend to do German language comm, you need the RT for that.
Again, here is the link to the German reg:
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/flugfunkv_2008/index.html
and here is, again, the link to the Bundesnetzagentur:
When you intend to do German language comm, you need the RT for that.
I already hold pilot licence and radio licence to speak German on radio when flying internationally, it’s my FAA PPL and FCC RTOC, I am not doing PPL flying and RT radio training again, there is nothing that prohibit using that that prohibits speaking German in US regulations when I visited small airfields few years ago (I may visit again and even post YT video that explain how Bundesnetzagentur regulations don’t apply to visitors pilot radio licences and aircraft radio papers)
Meanwhile Bundesnetzagentur or “local pilots/airfields” can get LBA to put German BZF requirement in the German airfield regulations? if it’s not in airfield AIP or PPR, I personally don’t give a hoot !
I already hold pilot licence and radio licence to speak German on radio when flying internationally, it’s my FAA PPL and FCC RTOC
How? That is English only.
Do you have a reference that FCC RTOC is restricted to “English Only”? or that ITU radio conventions are “English Only”?
I am not aware of any language restrictions on radio operator licences? and these are valid internationally in ICAO aircraft in any language
I am talking about radio operator privileges not the pilot language proficiency (FCL055 is crystal clear on what is required and it ovevrides LBA/Bundesnetzagentur regulations in EASA aircraft)
Ibra wrote:
if it’s not in airfield AIP or PPR, I personally don’t give a hoot !
Incidentally, in Germany, it is also not allowed to e.g. kill your passengers while approaching an airfield as a Pilot in Command. Be careful here: This holds true although it is not specifically mentioned in the airfield AIP! Many foreign pilots have been confused by this. But there is actually valid rules of law governing life in Germany that are not referenced in the AIP.
So if you are saying you will only ever follow rules mentioned in the AIP (which by the way is not law, it is just an information source), good luck with that.
Ibra wrote:
Including N-registered aircraft? again that aircraft radio carries US flag, US soil and US territory with it, I have this paper from FCC RTOC that says I can operate radio internationally, I can do that in English, French and German…as there are no restrictions there (except those imagined in pilot forums)[…]
Where I agree: one can’t speak German in the radios that sits in German airfield towers or in D-reg aircraft without holding German BZF, I have zero interest in doing that
Ibra wrote:
Do you have a reference that FCC RTOC is restricted to “English Only”? or that ITU radio conventions are “English Only”?
You ask four references and accuse others here of “making up rules that only exist on pilot forums”, yet you promote a rule that there is somehow a connection between the country your aircraft is registered in and the validity of radio licenses that you cannot show any reference for. You are “100% certain” of its existence (quoted). Where in the world do you take that certainty from? It is at the moment just your opinion.
To put this into a positive way: Anyone who DOES hold a radio telephony license that is valid for participation in aeronautical radio telephony in German language in Germany can do so – be it in N-Reg, D-Reg, any-Reg aircraft, or even on the ground. As much as you are craving for a rule that, for some reason, makes an otherwise not recognized radio telephony license magically recognized once you’re strapped into the seat of an N-Reg aircraft, it is simply not there. If it is, I would be positively surprised but would indeed ask for a reference here, too.
Ibra wrote:
Do you have a reference that FCC RTOC is restricted to “English Only”? or that ITU radio conventions are “English Only”?
Here you go:
Paragraph §14 of the Verordnung über Flugfunkzeugnisse (FlugfunkV) states that:
(1) Nicht im Geltungsbereich dieser Verordnung erteilte Flugfunkzeugnisse können anerkannt werden. Voraussetzung ist, dass das gültige Flugfunkzeugnis unter Prüfungsbedingungen erworben wurde, die denen eines entsprechenden Flugfunkzeugnisses der Bundesrepublik Deutschland mindestens gleichwertig sind. Gleichwertigkeit und Anerkennung von gültigen Flugfunkzeugnissen, die nicht im Geltungsbereich dieser Verordnung erteilt worden sind, werden bei der Bundesnetzagentur geprüft und festgelegt. Die allgemeine Anerkennung kann mit der Maßgabe erfolgen, dass die Inhaber von gültigen Flugfunkzeugnissen, die nicht im Geltungsbereich dieser Verordnung erteilt worden sind, nur zur Ausübung des Flugfunkdienstes in englischer Sprache berechtigt sind. Die Anerkennung kann formlos erfolgen. Die Anerkennung im Einzelfall richtet sich nach den Absätzen 2 bis 6.
(quoted from https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/flugfunkv_2008/BJNR174200008.html)
It roughly says that:
If I have an FCC certificate in N-reg aircraft, I don’t need UK OFCOM FRTOL, German Bundesnetzagentur BZF, or French PPT CEPT…this is basic radio pilot and aircraft licencing rules
I don’t think German radio rules are in anyway special than in any country in ITU, OCAO? or if they override FCL055?
I could be wrong on this opinion but I have no issues to put this in practice an speaking Spanish, French, German (again German is like any other language in Aviation, only Engligh have “special treatment” in ICAO)
I don’t speak Welsh but I would have done it using my FCC in N-reg when flying to small gliding airfields in Wales, I don’t think I am required to hold UK FRTOL from OFCOM with Welsh LP from CAA…
So if you are saying you will only ever follow rules mentioned in the AIP (which by the way is not law, it is just an information source), good luck with that.
I am saying if “German only” airfield wants German BZF holders they can put that in their AIP, it’s not rocket science? otherwise it can be visited by anyone who can speak German and properly licence according to the reg of his aircraft
Ibra wrote:
I am saying if “German only” airfield wants German BZF holders they can put that in their AIP,
No. You are saying that you ONLY accept a rule if it is written in the AIP. You do not accept it if it is written somewhere else (like, in a proper legislative text, as I’ve just quoted to you). That is BS to a degree it’s not even worth arguing further, sorry.
Patrick wrote:
You are “100% certain” of its existence (quoted). Where in the world do you take that certainty from? It is at the moment just your opinion.
To be fair I, not Ibra, was the one who was 100% certain – and I was certain that “there are international conventions waiving any requirements on needing national radio licenses in international air traffic.” I then went on to ask if these conventions were limited to use of radio in the English language. It’s quite possible that they are. It was an honest question, really.
But the interesting thing is that if the text of the FlugfunkV §14 is to be taken ad notam, then pilots in international CAT will have to check with the Bundesnetzagentur before flying to or over Germany that their particular radio licenses are recognised. Somehow I don’t think that’s what actually happens.
