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New Zealand Pilots license in Europe / Jodel on a Permit

I own a UK registered Jodel on LAA permit to fly . I would like to fly across to europe . My license and Passport are from New Zealand although I am a resident in the UK some 25 years . A/c insurance is english.
Can I legally fly over to Europe – I get contradicting advice on this – can anyone point me where the facts are written up .
Many thanks
Craig

Scootss90
Mayploe , Kent UK, United Kingdom

You can fly it in the UK as you do now on basis of it being not-easa, if you have a UK PPL licenece you can fly anywhere to Europe (but remember aircraft paper is a non-easa PermitToFly, some will tell you all bunch of stories on that, but honestly just go for it)

On a NZ PPL, I would say no without individual NAAs consent, it will be on a case by case rather than something valid for all Europe, but here is a quick temporary fix that will work for France: get a UK NPPL SSEA on basis of your PPL and with class 2 medical you should be able to fly to France (no one has asked yet if medical and NPPL should be issued by the same authority), of course you can get a UK PPL CAA or EASA one…

I am not sure if there are countries in Europe who automatically validate an ICAO ppl for annex2/1?

Last Edited by Ibra at 07 Feb 21:20
EGSX, United Kingdom

This question seems to me about the most complicated combination of factors that could be created.

If New Zealand is OK with your license status in operating a foreign plane, which apparently is the case, see what you think of this: the UK recognizes your NZ license as valid to fly your non-EASA regulated G-registered aircraft. That recognition would logically appear to have no geographical restriction, unless UK CAA explicitly says so. I’d be looking for that restriction, but if it is absent I think the issue then becomes whether your non-ICAO certified aircraft can be legally operated in continental European countries, regardless of the pilot and his license. I think it can, with appropriate permissions on a nation-by-nation basis that are unrelated to the pilot, only the plane.

Any errors in the above? What a riddle.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 07 Feb 22:04

I think Silvaire is right.

Under ICAO, a plane can fly worldwide if its reg matches the pilot’s license (noncommercial flying only, no instructing etc).

So a G-reg, and a NZ PPL which is automatically recognised by the UK CAA for a G-reg without territorial limits is fine.

Recently this auto recognition was limited to non-EASA aircraft (basically uncertified types) but that’s exactly what this one is. There has been some recent reversing on this limitation, and post-brexit it may reverse permanently, in UK airspace only.

The problem is that an aircraft without an ICAO CofA cannot fly internationally, except where explicitly permitted.

So you can do this, if you get the permits. In some cases these are automatic e.g. UK to France. A search here on e.g.
homebuilt privileges
digs out some long threads. There is an LAA document on the privilege matrix.

I don’t see brexit changing this situation, because the agreements covering these privileges are not negotiated via EASA.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

So a G-reg, and a NZ PPL which is automatically recognised by the UK CAA for a G-reg without territorial limits is fine.

That is only true for non-EASA (non-excepted) aircraft of which only those with a UK CoA are covered by the Chicago Convention (article 5 right of non-scheduled flight). The 1980 ECAC recommendation (link) does not confer an equivalent right. If for any reason the aircraft comes under the Basic Regulation then, as the OP is an EU resident, operation in EU requires a licence granted converted or validated in accordance with the Aircrew Regulation except in a member state applying an article 14 (or equivalent) exemption.

Ibra wrote:

I am not sure if there are countries in Europe who automatically validate an ICAO ppl for annex2/1?

The Republic of Ireland upon the invitation of EASA has applied an article 14 (of the old Basic Regulation) exemption to allow non-commercial operations with third-country licences. See Irish Aviation Authority Aeronautical Notice P25 (publications) and general information page.

The Irish Aviation Authority, in pursuance of Article 14(4) of Commission Regulation (EU) No.
216/2008, hereby exempts pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third
country involved in the non-commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of
that Regulation, from the requirements of Article 8(1) and Annex III, Section A, paragraph 5 of
Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011, subject to the following;

1. Pilots availing of this exemption shall be subject to the conditions of Article 5(10) of the
Irish Aviation Authority (Personnel Licensing) Order, 2000 (S.I. No. 333/2000).

This exemption is effective from 8 April 2017 until the date of adoption of the extension of the optout to 8 April 2019 in Article 12(4) of Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011, as amended, unless otherwise
cancelled.

In the old Basic Regulation article 4(1)(b) referred to aircraft registered in a member state (oversight not delegated to a third country) and art 4(1)(c) referred to an aircraft registered in a third-country but operated in the Community by an operator residing or established there.

London

One of those “I didn’t RTFP” days.

Peter, your post did in fact cover the caveat I made.

Ibra, the right to use an ICAO-compliant licence, granted or rendered valid by the State of Registry, to operate most Annex I aircraft is covered by the Chicago Convention. Some Annex I aircraft are reserved by the Basic Regulation, eg some when used in commercial air transport.

London

You might have to get UK CAA issue a document that states they recognize your NZ PPL to be operated in G-REG aircraft. So that you can prove to third countries that you are operating the aircraft legally.

Then you have to make sure that you have a permit from the country you are flying to. E.g. the ultralights that leave Sweden have to get permits every time they enter a new country, unless that country has a bilateral agreement with your registration country.

This is for ultralights but might contain relevant information since your situation is similar: http://emf.aero/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/MLA_flying_in_Europe1.pdf

^ESM[ES]$

Indeed; that UL privileges doc has popped up here in its various version and yours is the most recent – also local copy. I posted the “Annex 1” version above; whether it is quite the latest I don’t know.

You might have to get UK CAA issue a document that states they recognize your NZ PPL to be operated in G-REG aircraft. So that you can prove to third countries that you are operating the aircraft legally.

Lots of people have suggested that over the years (because the UK CAA had, for decades, auto-validated any ICAO license for a G-reg, worldwide, VFR, and IFR OCAS if the holder had an ICAO IR) but I have never heard of any “airport policeman” questioning this.

Today, with the CAA “user interface” thoroughly decimated and the chances of getting a reply, let alone one which makes sense, being remote, one suggested workaround is to print off the relevant bit of the ANO and carry it with you. In the same way as some people carrying a bit of paper from the CAA head of licensing policy saying the NPPL is legal for an N-reg, etc, etc. I carry a bit of paper from the FAA saying the IMC Rating is valid for an N-reg. But the chances of anyone at an airport understanding this stuff is extremely remote.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Scootss90 wrote:

I own a UK registered Jodel on LAA permit to fly . I would like to fly across to europe . My license and Passport are from New Zealand although I am a resident in the UK some 25 years . A/c insurance is english.
Can I legally fly over to Europe

If you legally can fly a G-reg annex I in the UK, you can fly anywhere in Europe. What is that Jodel? Is it an experimental (min 51% homebuilt) or a microlight (according to EASA and UK regs), or is it something else? If it is an experimental, then the ECAC recommendation allows you to fly freely. If it is a microlight then look here.

Freely?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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